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Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!??

 
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dontcountstars




Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Posts: 2



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:01 pm
Post subject: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!??

I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)

He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it, yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in front of him waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?

I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?

Also is there anything at all I can do?

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Phil P.

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Since: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 1736



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:40 pm
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"dontcountstars" wrote in message

> I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)

How's that being responsible??? You're taking homes away from 7 kittens
that have already been born!

Do the feline species a favor- have him neutered.

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Phil P.

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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:16 pm
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"dontcountstars" wrote in message

>
> I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating,

Probably because he doesn't want his offspring- or the offspring of his
offspring- or their offspring to end up here:

http://maxshouse.com/Do_you_still_want_to_breed_your_cat.jpg

or here:

http://maxshouse.com/convinced_not%20_to_breed_yet.jpg


Still want to breed him?
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dontcountstars




Joined: Jun 18, 2008
Posts: 2



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Thankyou for your misjudged replies, however I'm doing nothing wrong. Both cats are top quality pedigree from champion lines with health checks and excellent temperament, and the people who want them aren't interested in non-pedigree/non-show kittens. That is their choice, and something you would have to speak to them about. I am only interested in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed, and making sure I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats, so as to further the progression of the breed.

Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with overpopulation, I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal sanctuary on a weekly basis, I foster cats for the Cats Protection League, rehabilitating those who have been abused and are scared of people, and hand rearing unwanted kittens, then I advertise and rehome them, after personally paying for all of their vaccinations so as to help out the charity even more, and all in my spare time. I also regularly perform fundraisers for the UK animal charities, in the form of raffles, car boot sales, sponsered events and so on, and also work for free on the cat buses which go round the area performing free neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to help, other than harrass people online?

Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.

So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible, morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone asks an innocent question.

Have a nice day :)
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Matthew

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Since: Jul 07, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Oh please go pound tar




"dontcountstars" wrote in message

> Thankyou for your misjudged replies, however I'm doing nothing wrong.
> Both cats are top quality pedigree from champion lines with health
> checks and excellent temperament, and the people who want them aren't
> interested in non-pedigree/non-show kittens. That is their choice, and
> something you would have to speak to them about. I am only interested
> in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed, and making sure
> I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats, so as to
> further the progression of the breed.
>
> Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
> overpopulation, I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
> sanctuary on a weekly basis, I foster cats for the Cats Protection
> League, rehabilitating those who have been abused and are scared of
> people, and hand rearing unwanted kittens, then I advertise and rehome
> them, after personally paying for all of their vaccinations so as to
> help out the charity even more, and all in my spare time. I also
> regularly perform fundraisers for the UK animal charities, in the form
> of raffles, car boot sales, sponsered events and so on, and also work
> for free on the cat buses which go round the area performing free
> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?
>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
> message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> "Phil P." wrote:
> > "dontcountstars" wrote in message
> >
> > >
> > > I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating,
> >
> > Probably because he doesn't want his offspring- or the
> > offspring of his
> > offspring- or their offspring to end up here:
> >
> > http://maxshouse.com/Do_you_still_want_to_breed_your_cat.jpg
> >
> > or here:
> >
> > http://maxshouse.com/convinced_not%20_to_breed_yet.jpg
> >
> >
> > Still want to breed him?
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CatNipped

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Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"dontcountstars" wrote in message


> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?

He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does to
help cats?

>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.

Which pedigree charactersitics are so beneficial to the cat population that
they should be perpetuated?

The smushed-in face of the Persian and Himalayan that causes problems like
breathing distress, eye tearing, and malocclusions? As a result of their
short and concave underlying facial bone structure, the lacrimal sac and the
nasolacrimal duct of most Persian cats is blocked at the lacrimal puncta,
causing an excessive coagulation of debris and an overflow of tears from the
lacrimal glands. Excessive tearing is a common characteristic of Persian
and Himalayan cats and is caused by abnormal drainage of tears and may
result in epiphora. The two lacrimal puncta are the small openings to the
canaliculi (ducts) leading to the lacrimal sac. The nasolacrimal duct drains
the sac into the nose. The ducts of the lacrimal system are already very
small in felines and the facial conformation of extremely short-nosed,
large-eyed cats, namely Persians and Himalayans, is the single most common
cause of occlusion (blockage) of the lacrimal system and resulting abnormal
drainage of tears. Consequently, because of the epiphora and the blocked
lacrimal system, Persian and Himalayan cats suffer from chronic eye
infections. Bacteria build up in the obstructed lacrimal passages and thrive
on the debris deposited from the coagulated tears, inducing chronic
conjunctivitis, with characteristic symptoms such as a brown, mucus-like
discharge from the eye, blinking, and an exposed third eyelid. Persians are
also prone to Autosomal Dominant Polycystic Kidney Disease.

How about the skeletal and other problems of Munchkins? A skeletal
condition called thoracic lordosis, causes back pain and pressure. Munchkins
are predisposed to compressions in the chest, which can put pressure on the
heart and lungs with sometime deadly results. They're also predisposed to
radial hypoplasia.

The Osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish Fold cats? If Scottish fold cats are
mated to other Scottish fold cats, many of the offspring developed a severe
crippling lameness early in life. Cats so affected had shortened, malformed
legs and radiographic abnormalities affecting the growth plates that could
be readily appreciated. As a result of this discovery, the breed was
outlawed by the Cat Fancy in the UK. Recent work conducted in Australia has
confirmed earlier work that the cartilage defect that causes the ears of
these cats to fold is transmitted as an autosomal dominant trait, but
established for the first time that heterozygous Scottish Fold cats
invariably become afflicted by a progressive arthritis that varies in
severity from Fold to Fold.

There is also Autosomal Recessive Problems in Devon Rex cats if you don't
like any of the above. Two important autosomally recessive conditions have
been reported in Devon Rex cats, and interestingly the research concerning
these diseases has been done mostly in Australia. 'Spasticity' as it is
known to breeders, refers to a congenital myopathy somewhat similar to the
human condition limb girdle muscular dystrophy. Work done in the UK
established that the condition was inherited in an autosomal recessive
fashion with complete penetrance. Affected cats usually show obvious signs
of a locomotor problem when six to 20 weeks of age. Muscle weakness is the
predominant feature, with prominent ventroflexion of the head and neck,
dorsal protrusion of the scapulae, head bobbing, megaoesophagus and
pharyngeal weakness. Affected cats have a generally unsatisfactory quality
of life and are at risk of sudden death due to obstruction of the
pharynx/larynx with food. Detailed studies done in collaboration with
Professor Clive Harper have shown the underlying problem to be a primary
muscle disorder, although the molecular basis of the condition has not yet
been determined.
Oh, hell, here's a list compiled for you including some I missed in the
above (data taken from Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred
Cats; Ross D.Clark, DVM, Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992)...

Abyssinians? Renal amyloidosis, retinal atrophy, psychogenic alopecia,
patellarluxation.

American Shorthair? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, polycystic kidney disease,
mucopolysaccharosidosis.

Bengal? Entropion.

Birman? Hip dysplasia, epibulbar dermoids

British Shorthair? Hemophilia

Burmese? Ocular dermoids, primary endocaridal
fibroelastosis,meningoencephalocele, keratoconjunctivitis sicca, erosion of
cartilage of third eyelid,lethal midfacial malformation.

Chartreux? Patellar luxation, hip dysplasia.

Cornish Rex? Hypothyroidism, hypotrichosis.

Devon Rex? Hypothyroidism, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, hypotrichosis,
spasticity (prevents swallowing).

Himalayan? Cataracts, psychogenic alopecia, cutaneous asthenia, polycystic
kidneydisease.

Korat? Gangliosidosis.

Maine Coon? Pectus excavatum, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia,
hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Manx? Spina bifida, atresia ani, rectal prolapse, corneal dystrophy.

Persian? Chediak-Higashi syndrome, congenital ankyloblepharon,
entropion,congenital epiphora, primary glaucoma, mannosidosis, seborrhea,
polycystic kidneydisease, peripheral pseudocysts, patellar luxation, hip
dysplasia.

Ragdoll? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathyScottish Fold. Severe vertebral
abnormalities, prognathis, incapacitating joint diseasewith fold to fold
breeding, polycystic kidney disease.

Siamese? Feline hyperesthesia syndrome, feline endocrine alopecia,
adenocarcinomasof the small intestine, mucopolysaccharidosis,
gangliosidosis, malignant mammarytumors, numerous congenital heart defects
(PDA, aortic stenosis, AV valve malformation, pyloric stenosis, etc),
primary endocardial fibroelastosis, strabismus,nystagmus, sphingomyelinosis,
hydrocephalus, asthma, mast cell tumors, cutaneousasthenia, esophageal
hypomotility, cutaneous mastocytomas, hypotrichosis, glaucoma,cervical neck
lesions, hip dysplasia Somali.GingivitisSphinx.Spasticity, alopecia
universalis.

Tonkinese? Susceptible to upper respiratory infection, sensitivity to
vaccines.

Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant (usually
painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
euthanized for want of a home.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
> message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.

There was no assumption, only fact - and *I* resent *you* and all you stand
for.
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Cheryl

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Since: Jan 08, 2004
Posts: 887



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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CatNipped

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Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:11 pm
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"Cheryl" wrote in message

> On Mon 07 Jul 2008 04:00:55p, CatNipped wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> :
>
>> Which pedigree charactersitics are so beneficial to the cat
>> population that they should be perpetuated?
>
> Sorry for snipping all the rest, including the OP but still have
> computer problems. lol
>
> Great post. Not to mention the health risks to queen including
> pyometra and mammary cancer.
>
> Another another thing, don't "reputable" breeders have resources
> other than a newsgroup to ask these questions? The same old MO. They
> ask a question and then when challenged they post the "missing" info
> to make themselves feel better. pfft.
>
>
> --
> Cheryl

What breeders - both legitimate and backyard - don't seem to get is the
extrapolation from the data I posted. The breeds with the most / worst
defects are the "older" breeds like the Persian and Siamese - the ones who
have been bred the longest. Ergo, the more you breed for specific traits
(inbreeding if truth be told), the worse you make it the breed - and the
more tragic the consequences for the cat.

Another thing that drives me crazy is when breeders say, "Well my clients
don't want a moggie, they will only buy a pure-bred". Well, how wonderful
would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols won't have
a cat to abuse or throw away if it goes out of "style", and only people who
truly love cats and want to add a member to their families are the only ones
who *get* cats!

*SIGH* I'm preaching to the choir, I know!

Hugs,

CatNipped
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cybercat

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Since: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 1300



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:13 pm
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"CatNipped" wrote >
> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies
> are euthanized for want of a home.
>

This be mah favrit part. :)
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CatNipped

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Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:13 pm
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"cybercat" wrote in message

>
> "CatNipped" wrote >
>> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
>> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
>> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies
>> are euthanized for want of a home.
>>
>
> This be mah favrit part. :)

Thanks. I know I shouldn't bother replying because it will do absolutely no
good, but every once in a while I can't help myself, I just have to scream
to the heavens and hope logic prevails! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped
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cybercat

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Since: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 1300



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:59 pm
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"CatNipped" wrote in message

> "cybercat" wrote in message
>
>>
>> "CatNipped" wrote >
>>> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
>>> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
>>> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy
>>> moggies are euthanized for want of a home.
>>>
>>
>> This be mah favrit part. :)
>
> Thanks. I know I shouldn't bother replying because it will do absolutely
> no good, but every once in a while I can't help myself, I just have to
> scream to the heavens and hope logic prevails! ;>
>


No, it is really good that you are willing to do this. I wish I were not too
disgusted
to bother. You do more good than I do.
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Janet

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Since: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 4



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:50 am
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I'm not familiar with cat breeding, and whether or not there are standards
for ethical breeders as there are in the dog world; for example, all pets
must be sold with a spay/neuter contract, genetic testing appropriate for
the breed must be done before breeding, any puppy must be returned to the
breeder for rehoming if the owner is not able to keep it at any time during
its life, and so forth.

Is there such a thing in the cat world?
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boot

External


Since: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:46 am
Post subject: Re:_Tom_Cat_won’t_breed_with_in-season_queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Perhaps he has already done the deed when you aren't present. Perhaps
you are emitting distracting vibes with your intense and anxious
interest. Anyway, he's probably done it by now. But if this is his
first opportunity to mate at the age of three, he has missed out on
two and a half years experience, so maybe he's just not habituated to
jump on top of a female right off the bat.

On Jun 18, 11:22 pm, dontcountstars wrote:
> I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>
> He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it,
> yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is
> very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in
> front of him  waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed
> and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?
>
> I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just
> because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?
>
> Also is there anything at all I can do?
>
> --
> Posted at author's request, using moderatedhttp://www.PetForumz.cominterface
> Thread archive:http://www.PetForumz.com/Tom-Cat-won-breed-season-queen-ftopict72305....
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Janet Boss

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Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1700



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:41 pm
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In article ,
"CatNipped" wrote:

>
> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant (usually
> painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
> euthanized for want of a home.

To believe that mixed breed dogs and cats are without health issues is
to be wearing blinders. I've never owned a purebred cat, but my first
cat died from cardiomyopathy at barely 10. Apparently she hadn't heard
about "hybrid vigor".

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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CatNipped

External


Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:41 pm
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"Janet Boss" wrote in message

> In article ,
> "CatNipped" wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
>> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
>> (usually
>> painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
>> euthanized for want of a home.
>
> To believe that mixed breed dogs and cats are without health issues is
> to be wearing blinders. I've never owned a purebred cat, but my first
> cat died from cardiomyopathy at barely 10. Apparently she hadn't heard
> about "hybrid vigor".
>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

*SIGH* I see you conveniently snipped my list of breed defects - that's ok,
I'll just add it back in for you...

Abyssinians? Renal amyloidosis, retinal atrophy, psychogenic alopecia,
patellarluxation.

American Shorthair? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, polycystic kidney disease,
mucopolysaccharosidosis.

Bengal? Entropion.

Birman? Hip dysplasia, epibulbar dermoids

British Shorthair? Hemophilia

Burmese? Ocular dermoids, primary endocaridal fibroelastosis,
meningoencephalocele, keratoconjunctivitis sicca, erosion of cartilage of
third eyelid, lethal midfacial malformation.

Chartreux? Patellar luxation, hip dysplasia.

Cornish Rex? Hypothyroidism, hypotrichosis.

Devon Rex? Hypothyroidism, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, hypotrichosis,
spasticity (prevents swallowing).

Himalayan? Cataracts, psychogenic alopecia, cutaneous asthenia, polycystic
kidneydisease.

Korat? Gangliosidosis.

Maine Coon? Pectus excavatum, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia,
hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Manx? Spina bifida, atresia ani, rectal prolapse, corneal dystrophy.

Persian? Chediak-Higashi syndrome, congenital ankyloblepharon, entropion,
congenital epiphora, primary glaucoma, mannosidosis, seborrhea,
polycystic kidney disease, peripheral pseudocysts, patellar luxation, hip
dysplasia.

Ragdoll? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Scottish Fold? Severe vertebral abnormalities, prognathis, incapacitating
joint diseasewith fold to fold breeding, polycystic kidney disease.

Siamese? Feline hyperesthesia syndrome, feline endocrine alopecia,
adenocarcinomasof the small intestine, mucopolysaccharidosis,
gangliosidosis, malignant mammary tumors, numerous congenital heart defects
(PDA, aortic stenosis, AV valve malformation, pyloric stenosis, etc),
primary endocardial fibroelastosis, strabismus, nystagmus,
sphingomyelinosis, hydrocephalus, asthma, mast cell tumors,
cutaneousasthenia, esophageal hypomotility, cutaneous mastocytomas,
hypotrichosis, glaucoma, cervical neck lesions, hip dysplasia

Somali? Gingivitis.

Sphinx? Spasticity, alopecia universalis.

Tonkinese? Susceptible to upper respiratory infection, sensitivity to
vaccines.

Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the number
and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO! Is there any other
reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
*NO* *NO*. Even dog breeding has more of an excuse to exist because there
*are* breeds of dogs that serve useful, practical purposes (herding dogs,
rat terriers, etc.). But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.

Hugs,

CatNipped
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