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Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!??

 
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Janet Boss

External


Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1700



(Msg. 31) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>cats>health+behav (more info?)

In article ,
"CatNipped" wrote:

> very
> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of healthy
> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.

Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
"data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
and thriving on ignorance.

To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism. I have no way of knowing
how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding. I am confused by those
who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

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CatNipped

External


Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 32) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Janet Boss" wrote in message

> In article ,
> "CatNipped" wrote:
>
>> very
>> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
>> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of
>> healthy
>> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
>
> Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
> "data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
> and thriving on ignorance.

Creative snipping always gets you the text you need in order to respond in
your own defense, doesn't it? Well, go ahead - why don't you just type
something and make believe I said it, it's obvious truth and logic are
concepts you're not familiar with, sweetie!

>
> To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
> likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism.

Especially public forums dedicated to the health and welfare of cats - my,
my, imagine that!

> I have no way of knowing
> how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
> cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding.

Of course you do, what a surprise! I was wondering what that stench was I
was smelling - darling, you need to go take a bath in some common sense and
compassion, you reek of self-righteousness, irresponsibility, selfishness
and plain old bullshit (now see there, you've gone and reduced me to foul
language - that's it, I'm done).

> I am confused by those
> who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
> problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.

And there really is no need to bitch about breeding painful and probably
fatal diseases, structural deformities, defects, and neurotic tendencies in
the animals we love, is there? It's all good as long as snobs like you can
show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After all,
they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
than what we pay for them, right?

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

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-mhd

External


Since: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 2



(Msg. 33) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Janet Boss wrote:

>Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
>cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
>instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
>for dogs.

It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a shelter and save a
life.

-mhd
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Janet Boss

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Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1700



(Msg. 34) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article ,
-mhd wrote:

>
> It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a
> shelter and save a
> life.

What data is that?

First, you're assuming that someone who got a purebred cat intends to
breed it. There is not data to support that assumption.

Second, why wouldn't someone have a purebred animal and a
shelter/rescue/mixed breed animal? Why is that a "given"?

FTR - I currently have 1 cat (shelter mixed breed), 3 dogs - 1 shelter
mixed breed, 1 shelter/breed rescue poorly bred (pet shop) purebred, 1
purebred puppy (OMG - she's intact - run for the hills!). Apparently
your "given" isn't so given.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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cybercat

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Since: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 1300



(Msg. 35) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>cats>health+behav, others (more info?)

"Janet Boss" wrote in message

> In article ,
> "CatNipped" wrote:
>
>> very
>> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
>> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of
>> healthy
>> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
>
> Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
> "data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
> and thriving on ignorance.
>
> To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
> likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism. I have no way of knowing
> how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
> cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding. I am confused by those
> who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
> problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.
>
> --
It is my understanding that there are a few folks who have problems with
the way you treat dogs, too.
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Janet Boss

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Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1700



(Msg. 36) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>cats>health+behav (more info?)

In article ,
"CatNipped" wrote:

> It's all good as long as snobs like you can
> show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After all,
> they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
> than what we pay for them, right?

All of my animals are beautiful. From free to not free. How horrid of
you to decide that a carefully chosen animal is grotesque.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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CatNipped

External


Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 37) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Janet Boss" wrote in message

> In article ,
> "CatNipped" wrote:
>
>> It's all good as long as snobs like you can
>> show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After
>> all,
>> they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
>> than what we pay for them, right?
>
> All of my animals are beautiful. From free to not free. How horrid of
> you to decide that a carefully chosen animal is grotesque.

A caricature of what was once the perfect predator, but now sports a
smushed-in face that causes disgusting discharge to form in the eyes and
causes infections and breathing difficulties, has a deformed skeleton and
musculature, is disease-ridden in body and mind, is indeed grotesque - as in
the grotesquely warped, ethically lacking, money grubbing excuse for a human
being that deliberately caused those deformities for the sake of the
almighty dollar. Again, cats started out perfect, it's only the hubris of
people like you who think they can improve on nature and God's creation.

Go ahead, keep snipping to make your point, tell yourself you are a human
being and not pond scum... whatever lets you sleep at night and look at
yourself in the mirror in the morning, darlin'!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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Janet Boss

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Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1700



(Msg. 38) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article ,
"cybercat" wrote:

>
> Pardon my scientific terminology.

and AR agenda. No - I won't.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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CatNipped

External


Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 39) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Janet Boss" wrote in message

> In article ,
> "cybercat" wrote:
>
>>
>> Pardon my scientific terminology.
>
> and AR agenda. No - I won't.

Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for the
sake of your pocketbook! I never for a minute thought you would. It's
interesting, in a gross sort of way, what crawls out from under rocks these
days. If you don't have the ethical or moral standards of a hyena,
sweetums, you could at least keep your mouth shut and pretend you do! Now
do I have to start treating you like the puppy who pooped on the floor in
front of company (people are starting to turn their noses up at the stench)?
Are you that stupid that you would come into *this* particular forum with
your breeder "agenda"? Tsk, tsk. The depths that some so-called humans can
plumb never ceases to amaze me. Unfortunately, the stupidity of some has
become all too predictable. How sad.

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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Matthew

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Since: Jul 07, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 40) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"cybercat"



Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time
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cybercat

External


Since: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 1300



(Msg. 41) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:41 pm
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"Matthew" wrote in message

>
> "cybercat"
>
>
>
> Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time

Well, you must admit, there is a therapeutic value in taking potshots at
obvious idiots. It beat the hell out of taking things out on the ones we
love, right?

ReMIND you of anyone, as Craig Ferguson says ... MU hahaha!
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CatNipped

External


Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 42) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:41 pm
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"cybercat" wrote in message

>
> "Matthew" wrote in message
>
>>
>> "cybercat"
>>
>>
>>
>> Cyber kill file is your friend why are you wasting your time
>
> Well, you must admit, there is a therapeutic value in taking potshots at
> obvious idiots. It beat the hell out of taking things out on the ones we
> love, right?
>
> ReMIND you of anyone, as Craig Ferguson says ... MU hahaha!

Day-um! Seems she slipped away back into RPDB to whine to her widdle fwends
that we wus bein' all mean to her! Just when I was getting into the mood to
play, too! ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped
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Janet Boss

External


Since: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 1700



(Msg. 43) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article ,
"CatNipped" wrote:

>
> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done here
> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have never
> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing their
> depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!


I'm definitely not your darlin', nor am I stupid. I think for myself
rather than follow hysterical AR agendas. I have never been a breeder,
nor will be and never have owned or purchased a purebred cat. My cats
have come from: offspring of a stray taken in by neighbor, stray,
offspring of a stray taken in by vet's office, and [older] shelter
kitten. No ignorance. I like little things like facts.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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CatNipped

External


Since: May 10, 2007
Posts: 249



(Msg. 44) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Janet Boss" wrote in message

> In article ,
> "CatNipped" wrote:
>
>>
>> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done
>> here
>> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have
>> never
>> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing
>> their
>> depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
>> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
>> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
>> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
>
>
> I'm definitely not your darlin', nor am I stupid. I think for myself

Yes, sweetie, we've seen evidence of that here. That's not working so well
for you, is it, honey?

> rather than follow hysterical AR agendas. I have never been a breeder,
> nor will be and never have owned or purchased a purebred cat. My cats

Oh my, methinks she protests too much. Tell me then, sugar, what stake do
you have in so frenetically defending the scum of the earth? Are you just a
masochist? If you're trying to troll the group I have to say darlin',
you're not doing too well with that.

> have come from: offspring of a stray taken in by neighbor, stray,
> offspring of a stray taken in by vet's office, and [older] shelter
> kitten. No ignorance. I like little things like facts.

Facts like you keep snipping here, sweetie? Yes, we can see that for
ourselves! Didn't your mama ever teach you that actions speak louder than
words? Poor baby!

Hugs,

CatNipped

>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
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Human_And_Animal_Behaviou

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Since: Jul 08, 2008
Posts: 14



(Msg. 45) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Tom Cat won't breed with in-season queen!?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>pets>cats>health+behav, others (more info?)

HOWEDY diddler you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute
chronic life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES
mental case and BACKYARD PUPPY MILLER and
professional dog training FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,

"diddy" <none> wrote in message

> "cybercat" spoke these words of
> wisdom in
>
>> > It is my understanding that there are a few folks who
>> > have problems with the way you treat dogs, too.

janet is a lyin animal murderin life-long incurable MENTAL CASE.

> Crackpots..but not sensible people.

Of curse. Crackpots who DON'T HURT INTIMIDATE
an MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters an LIE
abHOWET IT <{}: ~ ( >

> But then, I figure you are a troll, or you wouldn't be trolling a dog
> group.

UNLESS he wanted to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE an DISCREDIT
janet as the pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin
punk thug coward mental case that she IS, just like HOWE I'm
fixin to do to diddler RIGHT NHOWE <{}: ~ ) >

> cross posts snipped.

The animal lovers here delete text and snip crossposts
to AVOID EMBARRASSMENT <{}: ~ ( >

Here's a bit of diddler's POSTED CASE HISTORY:

DIDDY ON CATS (shoot, don't trap)

From: diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Fur Auction Ohio State Trappers Association
Xenia Ohio Feb 15 2002
Date: 2002-02-16 12:06:21 PST


If I can get him away from the Olympics, I'll have him
answer that. He doesn't know how to change the identity
on the computer, so if "I" answer this post... it's really
Jeff. And no.... we went to watch. He sold nothing. btw..
are these "CATS" feral domestic cats? (sorry not familiar
with Oklahoma) (I just shoot the DSH cats.

Jeff caught a couple cats last summer while nuisance
trapping an orchard, but it wasn't intentional)
--
diddy

-------------------

From: diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: What would you do in this situation?
Date: 2002-05-31 14:49:22 PST


Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.


I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars. (apparently he stuck his paws through the
crate to bat at the dogs. I was out doing yard work
and rushed in to find the little kittens pieces and
parts being torn through by ALL the dogs.


I called my girl friend to come get my dogs. I screamed
displeasure, and stalked out with the kitten. Danny, et
al spent 3 days in a kennel until I finally felt like I
could interact with them without doing bodily harm. All
three dogs were never touched, but knew they had done
something so unspeakable that I wouldn't associate with
them and they got banished.


To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny will
not look at a cat. When confronted with one, Danny wees
himself and cowers hiding behind me for help.

I'm not saying this would work this way with all dogs,
But mom and dad now have a house cat, and she has
never been harmed by any of the dogs. Danny is there
all the time, unsupervised, and has no interest in harming
the cat.

--------------------------------

WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND ANY CATS TO SHOOT,
SHOOT HUNGRY DOGS INSTEAD FOR GETTING
IN THE GARBAGE:

From: diddy (di...@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK

Date: 2002-11-08 07:00:27 PST

I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way I would react.
There would be none left standing to deal with the threat just in
case.

If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.

Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If someone is
feeding his dog outside, his own dog might not mean THAT
much to him.

If he was feeding his dog outside though, many dogs are food
aggressive, and that could most certainly spark a dog aggression
thing. (and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what was it
doing in his yard?)

I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my horses and
called him to help me find it. I would do the same for threatening
my dog.

My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up trash up and
down our road for years making an unbelievable mess. When
we finally killed the culprit, the whole road cheered. Animal
control had never been able in years to catch this critter. (we
think it was feral it was certainly unkempt enough to have
been....and it had been shot at by MANY of the neighbors,
but it never frightened it off enough to keep it from NOT
tearing up the road the next trash day)

---------------------------------

OR you could just BLUDGEON a innocent defenseless kitty kat:

From: diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: cats : Crating/Caging: What constitutes abuse?
Date: 2002-08-23 09:18:08 PST


Lyn wrote:


> > You know I'm a cat abuser because I let my cat out.
> > Alison

> Well, it totally depends upon where you live, as to whether
> or not doing so is in the best interest of your animal.
> Abuser isn't a term I would use, and I am a "cat group"
> regular.

Here it would be abuse. If you like your cat you keep it
home. I run a state authorized and monitored nuisance
animal trapline.


This morning there was a cat in a snare. Ordinarily,
an animal caught in a snare can be released unharmed.
One of the animals I am targeting is coyotes (and the
complaint was that coyotes were killing area cats)


Duh.. If your cats are becoming lunch for wild animals,
to me .. It makes sense to keep your cats in where they
can't become lunch.. whatever.


Regarding this cat in the snare. It went nuts. It leaped,
and tangled itself, and most certainly strangulated it's
intestines. It had the snare pulled tight down to the
diameter of a dime (just large enough to encircle the
spine) around the waist area.


This cats snarled, and attacked. Trying to extricate this cat
was exceedingly difficult, not to mention dangerous. Because
I feared damage to the intestines and death of the gut, I
imagined this cat was not likely to survive.


It would have been much simpler to dispatch the unfortunate
cat and take out the dead body. Instead, this cat wore a
collar. it deserved a chance, and the owner deserved closure.
(no id on the collar) .


It escaped, just as I released it and it couldn't be taken to
the vet for examination. I will probably never know if this
particular cat survives the experience or not.


People in the area were aware that trapping was being done and
apparently still let their cats run free, b oth endangered by
the traps and by the coyotes being targeted that are causing a
problem with their cat population.


Had that cat not been wearing a collar, I would not have tried
to release this hostile cat. Releasing it may not have been a
kindness, but then... cats weren't supposed to be attracted to
this type of trap, in this position, and then they weren't
supposed to go ape, to get themselves in this situation.
If you like your pet, you keep them home.

-------------------

diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Oh My God

Two nights ago, Reka started acting frantic about 11pm.
I let her out. It's coyote breeding season, and she is fascinated
by them. I assumed she wanted to go out and listen to them
howling. I brought her in, and she spent the night franticly and
desperately demanding to go out.


After about 4am, I finally put her in the barn, locked
securely in a horse stall for the night.


She came in by morning, and had a normal active, playful
day. Last night, at 11pm, She franticly DEMANDED to go
out. I let her out, and brought her in. At midnight, she
DEMANDED to be let out. I let her out, but I went out
to the barn and got a crate, and decided she could
spend the rest of the night in the crate. We were NOT
going to do a repeat of the previous night AGAIN.


At 3am, she whined so loudly, I then decided not to
allow her to set a precedence of this type of behavior.
So I took her crate out to the heated gun shop and
decided to let her act out her bad behavior in peace,
and send a message that her obnoxious behavior
was not going to be tolerated.


This morning at 6am, I went out, and she had vomited
(normal looking dog food) and defecated in her crate
(not normal for Reka, but then, She normally didn't
sleep in a crate, NEVER gets corrected (she never does
anything to GET corrected for) and was probably nerves
from the outside experience, plus reprimand and solitary
confinement.)


I let her in the house while I cleaned the cage. Hoping
I had made my point. She acted healthy and normal, and
playful and chipper. But then I noticed a spot of blood on
the bathroom linoleum and in the bathtub. I was the last to
take a bath, so I knew REKA was the last in the tub.


That blood didnt come from me, so it HAD to come from
Reka. Thinking about her nearing the end of her heat cycle,
I still didnt think a lot about it. I thought her obnoxious
behavior the past couple nights WAS her heat cycle..
and corresponding coyote breeding season.


Then while feeding her breakfast, I saw the whole story.
She had blood (fresh) streaming from her RECTUM. UhOh.


I had her at the vets office this morning before he
opened. He just said her intestines were all bunched
up with huge air pockets.


Was there any chance that she ate strings of carpets? I
said, last Thursday we took a plastic tarp out of the yard
that we had over the grill to protect it from the weather
because she was chewing it. That would explain
EVERYTHING.


The strings are binding and bunching up her intestines,
cutting her internally and tying her intestines in knots as
it works its way through.


Reka is in a very critical situation. She is going to
require extensive and expensive surgery that I cant
afford. I will manage.


Even with the surgery, her condition will be critical
for awhile. Scary thoughts. I would never have
treated her the way I did last night, if I had even a
clue that she was sick. I feel so badly.
--
diddy


-----------------------

> "diddy" <none> wrote in message
>
>> "Peter" spoke these words
>> of wisdom in

>>> My Great Dane Gretchen had her pups on 3/21,
>>> exactly 63 days after conception.


>> I have no problems with BYB

Of curse not~! diddler *(amongst others here, [robin nuttal,
diane schoenberg, lying frosty dahl, handsome gentleman
jack morrison]) IS a BYB who BREEDS AGGRESSIVE
and HYPERACTIVE dogs for EXXXPERT dog handlers ONLY.

Here's diddler BUYIN a BREEDIN BITCH and signing a
BREED LEASE AGREEMENT and THEN FORGETTIN she had
a OBLIGATION to BREED a GENETICALLY DEFECTIVE dog...
so she kept a puppy (Danny) and when he became too difficult to
handle, had IT surgically sexually mutilated after collecting and
freezing semen for future BREEDING of her GENETICALLY
DEFECTIVE "stud dog":

"I argued that she was not temperamentally sound.


Danny was an offspring of tthat litter.


Danny has three crosses in his pedigree to this same fruity
dog. Danny passes it on. I had to work with every one of
those puppies in their homes. Every one of them spent a month
or more in my house at a year old doing rehab , before I spent
a week or more in their owners houses teaching them how to train
and work with their pups.


A litter that requires this DOES have temperament issues.
At the same time, each of these families has their name
on a list, should I ever breed Danny again (He has semen
on store)"


From: diddy
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:07:51 -0500


Subject: Re: "Timmie's in the well!!"



BethF wrote:
> "diddy" wrote in message
>
> > BethF wrote:
> > > "Shelly" wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Since Bodhi has arrived, Coda has earned himself a new
> > > > nickname: "Fun Police".
> > > > (Regardless if it's something he would've done as a puppy or not!)
> > > LOL! Isn't that funny - kind of the opposite of Kavik.

> > Danny is a fun police also!! Miss Reka and Mr beeeeegs frustratingly
> > just ignore him. (Danny never did those things in his youth, however,
> > as he was a very serious puppy, hence, I thought he had a potential
> > temperament problem and didn't sell him)


> Temperment problems? Isn't that funny. Danny. Temperment
> problems. Its a damn good thing you didn't sell him though.



Dannys mother had temperament problems.. and I had leased her to
breed (she was a top producing kennel dog), when brought into a home
condition, she had no resiliency. She was finished as a puppy in just 5
shows, and then never left the kennel again except to whelp puppies.

I very much admired her structure/pedigree/bloodlines/health
testing/"get and their performance records"


She had just had a litter and had to be bottle raised because she had no
milk. The breeder lamented that she thought she would probably not
ever be bred again because of the milk problem. I took her home on
vacation. however i signed legal lease papers with a breeding
clause.

I never intended to breed her. I thought the papers i was
signing was to prevent me from breeding her.


After keeping her for two years, the breeder told me it was time to
breed her and return half the litter that I owed during her "lease"


I told her I did NOT want to breed her, and her phobia about leaving
fences, fear of noises, etc was not something i wanted to have in a
dog.


She said i "OWED" her a 1/2 litter of puppies per contract. i long ago
threw out my contract, and she sent me a copy of hers. Sure enough, I
HAD to breed her. I argued that she was not temperamentally sound.

She was a ditz, and trying to work with her only to find her so
institutionalized that when she dissappeared, she was ALWAYS
standing at the gate shivering wanting to get INTO the safety of
the fenced yard.


(running away was not an issue with her.. she couldn't stand being
in a decision making situation,, and couldn't stand being outside a
fence... hardly the kind of dog that fits my lifestyle)


I did the obligatory breeding, and never dealt with that breeder again.

Danny was an offspring of tthat litter. I was worried looking for
instability. Her offspring from other litters had a history of being
darlings, but with the neurotic behavior she had) Danny would never
play. He would sit analyzing anything the other puppies did, and if
they screamed, he would never do what they did again. He wouldn't
play... He just watched, deciding what was ok.. and what wasn't.


He figured if a puppy screamed while they were roughhousing, all
roughhousing was bad. He'd be in the middle of the pack trying to
break them up (fun police).. he took this to extreme in every facet
of his life, and I feared he was going to be like his mom, and
eventually aftraid to leave the fence.


The home I had picked for him had two little boys, and I was afraid
they would intimidate him (in spite of them being great and gentle
little boys, into being a fear biter if forced beyond the bounds of what
he thought he was appropriate.) So i kept Danny and gave this family
glowing refeerrals to another family.

They watched Danny grow up, and his accomplishments, and felt
that I kept "Their" dog out of selfish reasons. They knew he was
a "star" and just kept him from them *sigh*


Danny was the easiest yet hardest dog i ever had to train in my life.
He was bright, tried never to make any mistakes, you only showed him
something once, he took learning so seriously that he would practice.


Yet if he failed or misunderstood, he crashed. He'd be afraid to try it
again, or assume the whole exercise was wrong, and he was to never
do that exercise again. If he feared he was going to make a mistake,
he stood there like a statue with his eyes closed and just shook.


He has been since VERY young, a perfectionist. He's still a
perfectionist. Yes, I considered this a temperament fault when
carried to this extreme. He worries about perfection even now,
until he gets ulcers :)


He did not belong in the home that was supposed to be his. That home
lost their dog they got instead, because the kids let the gate open,
and the dog ran out and got killed in traffic. I'm glad he stayed.


His puppies also have that sensitivity and perfectionist streak. In
the right hands, it's a gift. In the wrong hands, it's a disaster. Is it
a temperament problem? yes and no..

it's not a temperament just any family usa should have and could
deal with. so in essence, it's a temperament problem. To me, and
those homes who got his puppies, and then had me do in home
visits to teach them how to handle it have found it a special gift.

He's definitely a dog that is not for everyone.

His great great grandfather was also known more for his intelligence
than his championship, He won a National Specialty, and yet he was
bred twice, and his puppies had the same wierdness and intelligence.


MOST people couldn't handle them, and he got neutered. Never-
the-less, Danny has three crosses in his pedigree to this same fruity
dog. I think he got it honestly.


On the same note, Danny passes it on. I had to work with every one of
those puppies in their homes. Every one of them spent a month or more
in my house at a year old doing rehab , before I spent a week or more
in their owners houses teaching them how to train and work with their
pups.


A litter that requires this DOES have temperament issues. At the same
time, each of these families has their name on a list, should I ever
breed Danny again (He has semen on store) I sold every pup on a
spay/neuter contract (this was before limited registration)


One violated that contract and bred their dog anyway. He's a champion
and as the only pup from Danny that was ever bred, many people bred
to him. Those puppies did NOT have the support my Danny puppies had,
and there were a bunch of disturbed and temperament problems in those
litters. I've been rescueing Elkhounds trying to clean up the mess
since.


You could never guess by looking at Danny that there was a
temperament problem. It was trained out when he was very
young. It's non-existant.. but it's there in his genes.. in that
can in storage.


It's the reason I never bred him again. Although I would "like to"
someday. If I could find the right bitch, and knew that she would
have only "ONE" puppy.. for "me".


I had discovered that that very temperament weakness was his strength
that made him very special. Because it takes special handling to turn
it from detriment to gift.. I _do_ consider it a "problem".


---------------------------------


And then you WONder...
An then you don't <{}: ~ ( >


BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
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